Episode 97

Mark Mahaffey - The Pathfinder

A graduate of the University of Notre Dame and a U.S. Naval officer veteran, Mark Mahaffey joined his father’s business in 1969. Today, he is Chairman of the Board of The Mahaffey Companies, one of the largest family-owned real estate companies in Florida. St. Petersburg’s Mahaffey Theater bears his family’s name. In this edition of SPx, Mahaffey discusses his amazing life journey, as chronicled in his 2023 memoir “The Pathfinder.” In the book, subtitled “Finding the Right Path,” Mahaffey recognizes the defining moments that were the tailwinds to his considerable success.

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Joe Hamilton
Joining me today on SPX is amongst many other things, but one of them to talk about today is the author of the book, The Pathfinder, which is about your pretty considerable and wonderful life. Mark Mahffey, welcome.

Mark Mahaffey
Oh, thank you. Good to be with you, Joe.

Joe Hamilton
So in reading the book, the first thing that struck me is how do you how do you remember all that? I mean, you had such detailed memories of your earliest childhood. I mean, some of the things certainly stood out. But what was that process like?

Mark Mahaffey
I’ve been asked that question quite a bit. And I do have a good memory. And the things that I talk about in the book, obviously, at least to me, were important to me. As I was living in them, and then, as I recall them. I’m very blessed. I have a good memory. And so, but asked me what I did yesterday, and I probably can’t tell you,

Joe Hamilton
right. What it sounds like, you know, one of the things that certainly infused throughout the book is appreciation. And when you when you appreciate things, you tend to remember more. And so maybe appreciation is part of the secret to remembering things. Well,

Mark Mahaffey
I thought about writing this book for several years, I made a couple of outlines. And than I sort of got stuck in the mud. Because one of my weaknesses is I don’t know how to type it by hunt and peck. And unfortunately, I looking back I wish I had tiaken typing in high school. But anyway, that’s a slow progress process when you try to write a book. And fortunately, I’ve found a wonderful woman that is the wife of my chief financial officer for our company, and she volunteered to see if she can help me she had never written a book, but she’d done a lot of creative writing. And we made a great team. And so I was able to tell my stories to her and she would tape me while we met tried to meet once a week, usually on a Friday for about two and a half, three hours, she would tape me and then take these copious notes that I couldn’t dare look at her hands because I get dizzy watching her types. So she was very talented of sorting through those those stories and and then writing them up for me. And then I would look at the the Word document that she would email me and and go through each chapter and, and so it was a good collaboration. So it really worked well. So I

Joe Hamilton
really want to touch on a few of the themes. Or let’s say the overarching theme is that you found a lot of meaning in your life, and you seem to be satisfied with the meaning that you found in your life. So I want to dig into that. But I want to kind of lead up to it. So certainly one important element of that is friendships and a lot of your friendships you’ve had since playing basketball at the neighbor’s house when you were a young boy, talk about how friendships have given meaning to your life. Well,

Mark Mahaffey
first of all, a lot of my life have I reflected back on and I think it’s true of most everybody’s life. It’s all about relationships, the relationships, the friendships that you make during your during her life and so when I reflected back on my life I, you know, I started off the book by talking about hitchhiking to my high school. And, and then how I had made a very good friend in grade school, who taught me really how to how to play sports. And then when we entered high school, as sometimes happens in life you drift away from from that friendship or relationship, which happened to me. I mean, the friend I’m referring to in the book is Mike Johnson. And we remain at least friendly. But he sort of what took one path and I took another and as I described in the, in the book, he was turning into be a little bit of a wild child and never did anything real bad, but just sort of took a different route. And so that’s when I met another friend that his name was Bob. And last name was Decital. And so I started playing basketball over in his house, which was probably a mile and a half away. And back then, of course, we weren’t old enough to drive. You know, I rode my bicycle over the over at Bob’s house and that was sort of the neighborhood house there’s always seems to be one. And that was a Bob’s parents were wonderful. They ended up being my my second parents and of course where I met my future wife, unbeknownst to me, who was Bob’s little sister, and ended up marrying her all those years later. Is funny when we’re in, especially in when we got to college, she was three years younger, and I was and I always saw, I was very attracted to her, she was a cute girl. But her brother was played Big Brother quite a bit of the way. So I didn’t dare enter into that arena. Until one time I came home on a navy leave, I’ve been going to about a year and came home by just for a week or so and ended up to be invited to my friend Bob’s graduation down in Cincinnati. So when I went down there for that weekend, that’s where the sparks hit between his sister Marianne and me and, and that’s where our so called romance started. That was in 1967. In May, I went out with her during that weekend and that Sunday night. Anyway, I didn’t see Marianne until December that that year, which is seven months later. And then the next thing I saw was like an April that following year, which was 1968, my parents came out to California, to see me when I was stationed in the Navy out there on an aircraft carrier in May, and they could sort of see our relationship developing. And they said, you want to invite Marianne to come out there with us. I said, Oh, that’d be great. Which it was, our relationship really strengthened and we knew that we were, we thought we were meant for each other. But then I didn’t see her I went overseas on the aircraft carrier and didn’t see her until the following late November when I came home on a on a unofficial leave for Thanksgiving. And, and that’s when I ended up after driving about five and a half hours from Chicago to Indianapolis, where I lived, anyway, give me a lot of time to think and I had already decided that she was the woman that I wanted to be my wife, but I was gonna wait till Christmas, to ask her to marry me. Well, that long drive, I said, What the heck? I’ve said, I’m going to ask her. So here I’m asking my best friend’s younger sister to marry me and and that was about two o’clock in the morning at Thanksgiving Eve, and I’m not even sure Marianne was totally alert when I went through my humility speech. And so anyway, she said, happily, she said, Yes. And both families were very excited. And then we got married. I left again to finish my tour with the Navy and came back home late May of that year, which was 69. And we got married June 28, in 69. So that’s sort of how that developed. Then about a month later, after our honeymoon. We moved to St. Petersburg, Florida, and I started working in the in the apartment business with my brother and my father so

Joe Hamilton
Well, that’s a good segue. Sometimes I’ll get rolling on conversation without a proper proper introduction and you say the apartment company which is a half of St. Pete which is responsible for I say anything with the word arms at the end of it, you guys, you guys probably built it, Carlton Arms. And you know what’s now the beacon and downtown I think was your first, your first big project in St. Pete Beach on fifth. And that’s the family business. That’s

Mark Mahaffey
family business soon. Back in 6219 62, I, I was just barely in college and I had worked. As I talked about in the book, a couple of summers up in northern Michigan, at a really nice restaurant, I worked as a waiter in that restaurant, and if anybody seemed Dirty Dancing, which sort of was in the northeast, but it was very much like that a lot of college kids, men and women, working hard, but also playing hard. So that was a great experience for me. It taught me a lot of things about people how to talk to people and, you know, deal with different situations. So I really appreciate those days. And I was asked to come back for the third summer. And I was very tempting, but my father asked me to consider and I use the word consider because he was a strong individual, and he was smart enough to not just say, this is what you’re going to do. He said, I want you to consider coming down and working with your brother in law, him in an apartment business, which was the Carlton towers, and renting apartments. And I thought about it, and I finally made as I look back on it now I finally made I really made the right decision, because it gave me an opportunity, first of all, to learn sort of the basics of renting apartments. But it also gave me an opportunity to get to know my dad, a lot more than than I had in the past. And I was the youngest of four. My father was busy working up in Indianapolis while I was growing up. And certainly I saw them but he wasn’t the type of father that that you know, toss the football with you or even taught you how to play sports. He was working very hard and I never begrudge that. It was just he was doing his thing. But here was an opportunity for me to come down and and work for him. I sort of laugh in that, we became roommates for two and a half months at the Edgewater beach motel, which was a small motel down really on what is now part of the Vinoy grounds. It has swimming pool and it was well run and it was it was owned by the larger family and and so that’s where we lived in and just a basically decent sized motel room for two and a half months, just the two of us. So that really gave me an opportunity to really learn about my father and my father to learn about me and, and certainly learn quite a bit about renting apartments and, and also just our personalities are learning about one another, so I cherish those days. So I did that for three summers one once in St. Petersburg, then over on the east coast, near Cape Canaveral, we were building a proper project over their development. And so I worked for my brother over there and then the third summer, I worked half to summer back in St. Petersburg at the Carlton towers which was then all finished and just learning about management. And then I went on Midshipman cruise. In the Navy I went through in ROTC at at Notre Dame and so between your junior and senior year, our went on a cruise to Little Creek Virginia on an LSD which stood for landing ship dock and for six weeks. And so that was my training other than four years of in ROTC at Notre Dame. So those those those experiences in Michigan, working in his waiter as a really nice restaurant. We’re alongside a really one of my best friends then and still is Dick Vorm as I described in my book, but then came on down to Florida and work alongside my my father and my brother. And so fast forward a bit and we then I’m in the Navy for three years, which taught me so much was on an aircraft carrier and the way it works on air craft carrier on any other ship or a Navy ship, you start off as a green wet behind the ears Ensign, and you work your way up and on the aircraft carrier. I worked on the bridge, along with other officers and I eventually got promoted to Officer the deck and I work under a wonderful Captain Dan Murphy, who taught me so much about treating people, leadership, I’ll never forget him, he ended up being a four star Admiral, the only least back when I ended up visiting him later on in my life in Washington, DC. He was the first four star Admiral that did not go to the Naval Academy, which was quite an achievement. Anyway, he taught me a lot and all are never, never forget him. And so again, getting back to what I think the theme of the book is, it’s all about relationships.

Joe Hamilton
So dipping back into meaning, relationships, obviously, is a lot of what that boils down to. But I still, I still want to look into some of the decisions that you made. Number one military. So how normal was it? You came from an upbringing where you kind of could have done a different things, you know, we’re actually going to university worked in the business. How unusual the choice was it at that time for you to actually go into into the military and serve.

Mark Mahaffey
Where Well, when I, first of all, my dad went to Notre Dame. And so that certainly had an influence on the college I chose to apply to. And so anyway, I applied to Notre Dame, two or three other schools, and I was accepted at Notre Dame. And when my mother found that out, and she said that, and she had done her research. This was back in in 65-66. I know I’m wrong about that. 62 Excuse me, 62 is when I graduated from high school. So right around, you apply, like you do today at the end of toward the middle of your junior year. So we’re talking about last latter part of 1961, early part of 62. So I got accepted in the spring of ’62 at Notre Dame, and she then talked to me and said, I think it would be wise for you to apply for the NROTC program at Notre Dame. And I said really, I said, so I looked into it and, and being like, you know, 18 years old and and looking forward to going to college, it was not at the top of my list to add that burden of of taking as it turned out three more hours of class per semester plus two hours of drill per week. That was a lot of and none of my friends were doing that. But I have to credit my mother with being very wise. I think she thought it would be good for the development of me into an adult. Also, I’m sure she was worried about the Vietnam war that was starting to percolate, and she was concerned about that and rightfully so, she basically made it very clear she was really influenced by him. I’m sure I could have booked that recommendation but I decided well what the heck I’ll apply and I was accepted. And as I say the rest is history because that she was right. It did develop me into into adult told me a lot of things. But basically I went through four years of training at Notre Dame and I remember when I graduated early, early June at Notre Dame you also got commissioned as an ensign the next day and so right around the end of May I got my orders I thought I’d have probably a month there are four or five weeks well I had a week I had to go to I was ordered to go to a weapon School in San Diego. The ship was home based in Long Beach, California. So I thought it was gonna be a week school as it turned out when I got out there was not a week school it was a two month school. And so which I’ve found out and no turn around I had to go through that which was a good school. And it also wasn’t that difficult even though there was a full agenda of whole syllabus and but I It was a for me as I look back on it. It was a it was a good sort of easing. me into the military life. And so then I ended up going to the ship in Spain and that really the almost three years on that ship and went overseas to Vietnam twice, and we patrol the waters and did search and rescue and reconnaissance off our carrier. And, you know, I, I learned a lot of leadership and certainly great experience working with people alongside fellow officers. But also I had a division to run and, and in the bridge watches which taught me a lot. So I think back and I say to my mother, who’s who is a spirit now saying, Thanks. Thanks, mom, because you steered me right.

Joe Hamilton
And she was equally supportive even after the Notre Dame time ended, have you staying on and I guess the alternative might have been getting drafted into another area that wasn’t quite as safe, theoretically, and so by continuing down that path and in in serving on the aircraft carrier, you know, you filled your patriotic duty but it did so in a way that was kind of of your choosing. Well,

Mark Mahaffey
it had, you know, many fold purposes it turned out and I think she really felt that and, and then I learned very quickly and it’s amazing because the getting back into relationships and friendships, I’ve made a lot of good friends out there are still friends with several of the men I served with and we want in particular, I talk about my friend Steve Brtcher in the book and that we’ve been friends for God knows how long but since I guess 1967, when I first met him and he’s like a brother to me and we’ve been through some thick and thin with one another he now lives in Colorado and and we see one another quite a bit and the families and the wives are very good friends. But it’s it’s really gratifying to form a friendship that many years ago and and watch it flourish and still great friends today and

Joe Hamilton
He had something to do with helping develop on your leadership philosophies which was to give people a chance to lead because you propose to him to kind of you know to work above his pay grade and manage shift under your supervision earlier than you would have been if he had followed the strict letter of the of the procedure. And that you know, that method of letting them sort of try leading a little bit early seemed to pay off and they ended up adopting that program.

Mark Mahaffey
Well it when I was first promoted to Officer the Deck first of all watch on an aircraft carrier normally have three to four Officers on the watch, you have an Officer the Deck a Junior Officer that deck and then one or two junior officer the watches. So back I was still in Ensign I got word that has been promoted to Officer of the deck and I went oh my god, and I’ve moved up the sort of the chain to from junior roles to the was to junior officer of the deck and the only reason I know I was named Officer of the deck. And it was because of atrition somebody left got out of the Navy and I was so called senior man with the most experience well, to be real honest. Now and also back down I went oh my god, I’m not qualified to do this. And so my first watch we had some Russian trawler or sort of shadow us. Listen, it’s 430 in the morning, which is supposed to be a very quiet watch you ally and a week the captain and tell him that we’ve got a little situation out here there’s a Russian trawler thats on a collision course with us. So I practically got that sentence out and the captain was standing next to me in his bathrobe saying what’s going on? So in that ended up okay, he was just trying to harrass us. But the new Captain which was whose Captain Murphy came aboard not too much farther along than that and let it be known that he didn’t think I was quite qualified well felt like saying well really no kidding. So I I hit the books somwhat and and then time talking to other officers that were qualified and so took me a few weeks but I, the captain let it be known that that he thought I was qualified. So anyway, several months later after serving time overseas at what they called Yankee station, which was North Vietnam. We were then just going to back to Japan, for a little off combat duty, I approached Captain Murphy and I said, I’ve got an idea. And he said what he saw, I like to pass it through you, and I reviewed how sort of I got that job and got promoted when I really wasn’t qualified. And I said, what I’d like to do is, is take the junior officer the deck and have him make him the officer of the deck. And I’ll be his junior officer, the DAG, officially still, I’m the officer of the deck, but let hi watch, let him run the watch for the whole four hours, for hopefully a week or two. I’ll still be there if anything I have to step in, but I’ll be his assistant, but I’ll let him work on it. And I said, I think we’re going to qualify, I think we can qualify at least a few people that I think have the quality , but they just need the experience. And I said I’d like to try that. Well, Captain Murphy said, You know what, I think that’s a good idea. Let’s give it a whirl. So we ended up qualifying, qualifying four or five men. And one of which was Steve Betcher who was the first one and he qualified within a week with that system. And so anyway, I had, I had one, one guy or one man that I wanted to try with sort of my last hurrah and this type of training. And I, I told the captain of that. And he said, Well, I thought she sort of run through the gamut here. And I said well, I got one more. And he said, who might that be? And I told him it was the guy’s name was Dorsey Morris, who was a really a good guy, but very laid back. He was from Georgia and and sort of have a laksadaisaical manner or behavior. But I knew he was smart enough, he just needed to be pushed. And I said, I’d like to try it. And I’m going to be hard on him. But I think he can do it if you allow me to train this, this man. And he said, okay, you haven’t been wrong so far. Let’s give it a shot. Well, Dorsey did get qualified, even though I, I was really hard on him, but I think, I don’t know, whatever happened to Dorsey, but hopefully, maybe I gave him the the push that he needed to be a leader and, and hopefully, maybe that served him well, in the rest of his life. I don’t know. But I’m hoping that, but that taught me that told me that, you know, if he give, give somebody a chance, and also be there to try to assist him. So I unsolved that same kind of system with our managers. And it’s been successful, where we’ll take an assistant manager on one of our developments and have that person, sort of run the watch or run the be a manager, and let the real manager sort of stay in the background. And I’ve we have found that we really qualify competent people to become managers through that, through that experience, and I brought that from what I learned in the

Joe Hamilton
Navy. And that also means you need to have a culture of pragmatism, because a lot of managers will say, in traditional, you know, the traditional corporate structure might be a little more protective over their, over their real estate and not wanting to give a chance for somebody to show them up or, you know, they really have to be team players, you know, to take a step back to be you know, even if it’s just functionally the assistant and, and giving their folks chance to shine.

Mark Mahaffey
Well, I found that the managers that stepped back also feel it seems to me at least the way I look at it, they feel a sense of accomplishment, that they have actually helped train somebody that really had the had the potential. And I think it served us well. So I’m very proud of that.

Joe Hamilton
And so after this time on the boat, you had probably one of the bigger crossroads in your life, which was what’s what’s next when you had intended on an MBA. Certainly, the military was theoretically an option career there. And that’s when you got the call from your your dad talk, talk about the decision process, but what you were weighing as far as what you wanted your future to be and how much that played into that decision.

Mark Mahaffey
First of all, I’ve worked for my father and my brother. Before during my college years, my father was tough to work for I knew that even though I had gotten to know him quite well during that time, I was sort of in a quandary saying, well, do I want to go to school and yet and get a graduate degree, just as a I don’t know, it’s a backup but my father was very persuasive. He again he was he ended up being pretty, or I think very smart. He just he knew that if he tried to really coerce me or demand that I come down that I think I’ve learned that being a parent also a, you can just sort of lead the horse to the trough, you can’t make him drink. And, and so he said, he really appreciate me seriously considering it. And then he said, Look, he says, I, he made the famous statement to me, which I knew he was my father saying it. I said, I can teach you more in 90 days than you’ll learn in two years of grad school. And I sort of said, well, you oh, yeah, sure. And he said, Well, let me say, he told me, he said, Look, you went through a good business, finance curriculum at Notre Dame, you’ve had three years good experience in the Navy. And frankly, we can really use your help right now. So I sort of said, okay, you know, I’m listening. And then my brother wrote me a tremendous handwritten letter, really telling me a lot more specifics of why he thought I ought to join them now instead of maybe joining them later. But then I went to see my commanding officer, and he told me, he said, Look, he’s and he’d already tried to influence me on staying in the Navy. And I had told him why I wasn’t going to do that. I said, look, I love the water. And I but I don’t want to, I said, you’re an aviator, first of all, to be a captain of a, of an aircraft carrier, you have to be an aviator, that’s just part of the curricula the the qualification, so I said, you’ve had a good life you haven’t been to sea for 40 years. I mean, you sometimes go to sea, but not all the time. I said, I, because of my eyes, I don’t have good enough eyes to be an aviator. I’d be in what they call black shoe, Navy, which is ship Navy versus brown shoe, which is aviator. And I said, that’s just not for me, I want to have a family and and so you know, some of this, it’s good for some people, but not for me. So he had already accepted that fact. So he told me, he said, I would if I were you, I’d go down to Florida for two years, and not any shorter than that. And you’ll know, by the end of two years, whether it’s something you really want to do, or you I think your father who he had met, I think he would, he wouldn’t like it, but he’d accept it. If you want to go to a different route, either go back to school or do something different. So I with all those ingredients, I decide, we’re gonna go to Florida. And so what I did, and it was, I’ll have to be the first person on my wife, Marianne would certainly echo the sentiments. It was a tough two years, it was a lot of adjusting a lot of learning. And, and when I really got into the financial part of our business, as far as figuring out, new developments, financing dealing with, with that part of it, versus just the management in which is certainly a necessary ingredient that you have to do. But at the end of those two years, I remember coming home to Marianne it just happened to be two years. And I said, You know what? I think I liked this business. She said, Oh, my God, thank God. So it was the right decision, in this case, the right path. But it was a it’s I had to learn the right path. And you know, I’ve enjoyed it, it certainly we’ve had some ups and downs like any anybody’s life or anybody’s business. But, you know, again, it’s it’s, I’ve learned a long time ago that it sounds almost like a cliche, but I live by the golden rule. I try to treat people like they would I like them to treat me and that’s served me pretty well.

Joe Hamilton
You’ve mentioned a couple times that your your dad was tough to work for. Can you can you break that down? How much of it was the nature of the business? And how much of it would you adopt? In How much would you and what would you not adopt in now he was to work for?

Mark Mahaffey
Well, that’s a good question. I first of all, when I came down I was my first job was at Carlton Arms is St. Petersburg, which we still own, which is on Pinellas Point. And my father was sort of the philosophy that does just throw him into the lion’s den and I think he knew I would have gotten gobbled up by the lions figuratively, he probably would have saved me, but he just sort of put me in charge and was certainly around. But he, helet me learn that way. And I did. And he was tough. And then I never knew if I was doing the right thing, but and then we got into a new development, which was Coquina Key Arms, and he really pushed me with a lot of responsibility as far as the beginning and the financing on that, and he certainly was there looking over my shoulder. But, he taught me at the same time, but also let me let me sort of make my own mistakes. Hopefully, I didn’t make too many. And but that was the way he trained me. I wouldn’t give those days up for anything. Because I learned so much. I remember standing in front of a pretty good crowd out on the island of Coquina Key talking to the neighborhood association, which probably was 100 people in that meeting. And I had to get up and tell them what we were going to do on the on the on the south end of the island and Coquina Key, fortunately, I had Carlton Arms which we had already developed, which is only two miles away to say, that’s what we’re going to do, we’re going to build a Carlton Arms out on here and and we’re going to be good community players and good neighbors and and we do what we say we’re gonna do and so as as we ended up doing so, you know, those experiences, I just, I remember vividly and and but here was this 25 year old, young, pretty young guy sort of put out there in front. And but I learned a lot and and I appreciated the way he taught me that way. By the way, I did learn in 90 days more than I would have.

Joe Hamilton
So how about your brother? So you know, obviously he had been in the business before you by a couple of years. He was older than you. But a couple years. How did that how smoothly did the division of labor sort of developing was there any ever any kind of competition or whatever between you and him? Well, my brother, Jim.

Mark Mahaffey
He, he’s, he was eight years older than I was, and so he’d worked my, with my father up in Indianapolis, IN, rhw finance company that our family owned. And so he had a lot of experience with my dad. And then when they both of them and my brother Jim, in his family followed my father back in 1962, to come to Florida and and develop the Carlton Towers and then later on other Carlton Arms, I learned a lot from him. And he and I were certainly different, really different one another. And we certainly had our differences that we learned to work through those. He was very smart. And we both had the, I think I know we had the both the same values. And we worked together for a good long time when he passed away in in March of 2020. So I worked with Jim, you know, basically for 50 years, and we did a lot of neat things together. He was not certainly as outgoing as as I turned out to be. But very, very, very, as I said smart did a lot of neat things. And we built a lot of developments together. If I look back on and now I think it was good that he was in Winter Park. Especially when my father was in St. Petersburg that worked out well them having, you know, over 100 miles between them. And then I ended up being in St. Petersburg and that probably was a good thing that we had separation. But you know, I miss him, he was a good partner. Certainly my brother and I were friends but we worked together but we also stayed separated enough that it worked out. And sometimes in family businesses are tricky. They can go a lot a lot of different ways. And it is worth noting that it’s still a family business and now your your son and some of the other children of your of your brothers and sisters are have taken over the reins successfully. Well, back in the end of 2019, my brother and I decided that we would basically turn the reins over to my son, his son and Anna and a son of one of my sisters. So I’m still involved but those guys they’ve been in the company several years was each one of them. And William Mahaffey my brother’s son, he’s been in the middle as many years and, and he’s his talents are mainly focused on development, finding new pieces of land, working on the partnerships in the end, the financing, etc.. My nephew Dan, he’s a head of our construction division and has been with that responsibility for a good many years. And my son Tom is more involved in management. And we now have 12 developments working on number 12 right now. And that’s in Winter Haven on Lake Dexter, which is a natural lake annex. It’s exciting that we still are developing future properties. They’re now called the Carlton. Carlton arms is a name we we used over many years and it’s basically describes least in our mind, a two story colonial style concrete block with a brick stucco facade in a large piece of land, usually on water, either natural water or water that we make meaning digging the lake, etc. So now we’re building a three story unit, and actually also developing a four story unit. We call that the Carlton. We’re still like the name, Carlton, which we think it is a good trademark or it’s good label for us. Carlton is a name that my father thought years ago back in the early 60s, there was a classy name lot classier than Mahaffey, So it’s not my mother’s maiden name, it’s a Carlton that is he had stayed at a few Carlton hotels and just liked the name. So we’ve carried that name forward. And so we’ve had my parents had 18 grandchildren. And we’ve had four that ended up being in the business with us, my son and two nephews and a niece who retired about a year ago. So and that’s amazing, because each sibling, me my two sisters, and my brother and I ended up with one child in the business. And that was not by design, that’s just the way it worked out. So we’ve had a few of those other grandchildren come and go some, some easily, some not so easily. But again, Joe, you said it a family business is a tricky business. It’s and we’re fortunate that we’ve had the third generation come along that have the desire and the talent to keep going forward. And so it’s it’s been, it’s fun to watch, it’s fun to watch for me to to be still associated with with the future. But certainly, and as I say, from 20,000 feet above,

Joe Hamilton
And they’re all sharing the same office. Exactly.

Mark Mahaffey
So, you know, it’s been a good ride. Again. My father started the business in Florida being really based on partnerships, which is again, you know, relationships and partnerships. We’ve been partnerswith with several insurance companies and their their purpose was to bridge the gap and to provide good financing. And certainly some some knowledge but we were the ones who created it and they provided a good part of the financing are some of the upfront money. And we’ve partnered with with some landowners that own the land, for instance. Coquina Key we partnered with the Hardaway company out of Columbus Georgia, with their Mr. Hardaway the the president and some of his key people. We partner with JW Conner in Tampa on a on a big piece of land that we still are partnership with them. And so as of late though, it’s we certainly still have partnerships but within our own family number one and also some key employees that own part of the pie, that’s for sure. And we found that that gives them some more incentive to they’ve always worked hard, we’ve always had great people working with us. We’ve had some people work with us 40 or 50 years. It’s unbelievable. But we feel I think from the very beginning with my dad and certainly my brother and I are now the third generation, so we still go back to the good old golden rule and we treat people like we want to be treated, and work hard, but enjoy life at the same time.

Joe Hamilton
Let’s talk about St. Pete and the St. Pete construction scene. So you know, you’ve seen been here through most of the changes, you know, you’ve kind of seen it all with regards to how St. Pete has developed in the last few decades. Right now, there seems to be plenty of buildings happening, but a lot of higher end condominiums high rises, your model has always been different. It’s always been a little more horizontal, two storey now moving up three and four storeys, but you’ve also tried to stay at a reasonable price point. And so, you know, when you look at our affordable housing shortages today, where do you see yourself positioned? And what do you think about the landscape of development in St. Pete today?

Mark Mahaffey
Well, I have been here a long time. You’re right about that. And, and I’ve seen, you know, when I first came to St. Pete in the early 60s, and then, you know, back in 69, when I came down to work on a permanent basis, the average age, even when Mariana and I came down here in 69, there was probably 68-69 years old. Now, it’s 38, to 42. I mean, what a huge change in the demographics, which I think has been healthy for St. Petersburg. You know, very, real fortunate. We have three children, five grandchildren. And they’re all obviously, they’re all adults now and have families of their own. But they all live in St. Petersburg. Now, we’re not the usual case. But I’m saying we’re not so unusual anymore. Because St. Petersburg is a great place to live and work. So we’re blessed. And all three of our children and their children are here. But it’s changed a lot. And Tampa Bay has become much more of a region than it was way back then. So getting to the housing. Yes, you’re right. There’s a lot of that. And a lot of these, these taller buildings you see coming out of the ground. So yes, some of them are condominiums. But also some of them are rentals. And I’m not sure which has the most but are they affordable? Well, once you really look up affordable housing, they’re not affordable, that are affordable for mid upper class. And so yes, affordable housing. It is a problem. And it’s a problem we need to all address one way or the other. And we’re certainly looking at that. We do we think we build affordable units. For people. We try to keep the rents reasonable. But I think and I think the mayor is trying is St. Petersburg, Mayor Welch he’s trying his best is to try to, for instance, in the Tropicana and the gas plant area, trying to promote some affordable housing down there, which I hope works. We’ll see how that works. It all depends on on the incentives it, all depends on the numbers, cost and financing, a lot of things go into that. But it St Petersburg is a great place to live. And I like to hold Tampa Bay area, obviously. And and we have a lot of things going for us in this area. Have

Joe Hamilton
you been tempted to go more upmarket in your development? And as you’ve looked at going the other way, as you’ve looked at affordable options from you know, with your developers hat on what what is the best chance of success we have for creating the right, you know, the right mix of incentives for developers to do affordable. So you’ve kind of played in the middle? Why of why haven’t you gone either direction more?

Mark Mahaffey
Well, I think this is just what I think, I think, what I would call a mixed development of, for instance, whether it be the Tropicana or the gas plant area or other places, if you can do a mixed so there’s some we’ll call them affordable housing mixed in with with other we’ll call it higher, not high but middle income to higher income, a mixture. I’ve seen in least in the past development set, or we’ll just call them lower income developments in a total sense. I don’t think that works. I really don’t. I think if we can figure out how to do a good mixture. That works a lot better.

Joe Hamilton
Do you think it’s fair, if you have a situation where you’re going to build you know, honoree units and make X amount that it would be incumbent upon really the government to say sure, you can build those 100 units, you can make a profit on 80 of them, but 20 of them, you’re gonna make, you’re gonna make breakeven, so they can’t be affordable, or this is this is just a crude way of saying it. But that development still makes sense, even just making profit on at it, even if you’re not making profit on 100. And you still get that affordable housing.

Mark Mahaffey
Well, back several years ago, they had the government had a tax exempt bond program that worked very well for a while, which we used. And I can’t remember the exact rules, but it was pretty similar to what you just describe where maybe 20% of the units would be for in the definition of affordable housing. So there’s got to be some incentive, at least, from my point of view, to make it worthwhile, where the where it makes sense is far as the profile of the residence, a real mixture, but also give some tax extent of one way or the other. So back several years ago was tax exempt bonds. In other words, those were low rate bonds, which were tax exempt, from investor point of view, they were very popular, because an investor could buy those bonds that might be Pinellas County or St. Petersburg, or even the state of Florida, which would give them tax exempt income and not pay taxes on from the developers point of view, that was a low percentage rate financing, which made it more plausible to build a developer. So they have some programs that I really don’t know enough about to even talk intelligently about there were there’s some tax incentive. But I really I can’t, you know, I don’t know enough specifics.

Joe Hamilton
I want to finish up with a couple things. One philanthropy, you know, you’ve you’ve supported a lot of different causes institutions, hospitals, Elon University, locally here, probably most known for the theater. So what has been the experience of having your name on that theater for for so long, I know is a gift you gave quite a few years back, you and your family gave each a portion of it to help to help revitalize it. You don’t mention it a ton in the book, and it almost seems like something that is has has has taken on weird life of its own compared to everything else you’re doing. Were like, oh, people are talking about theater again. Is there any truth to that? Am I reading that?

Mark Mahaffey
Well, the Mahaffey theater back in the mid 80s. Back then it was the Bayfront Center, which included the theater, and also the arena. And so back in, let’s say, the mid 80s. I’m guessing at 45, the city committee, including the mayor came to me and said, would your family consider giving some substantial money for the for the theater, to be upgraded? I mean, we gave a portion of the money. And so we thought about it, I talked to my mother and my father, and certainly my wife, because we had done some things in the past but fairly quiet, and not with your name on a building. And they first the city first said, well, we’ll just name the whole center after you and we said no, we don’t want we don’t want to do that. And they said, well, how about the theater? And so my mother always like theater, Broadway and up in Indiannapolis, we used to go to this theater and see plays and events like that. So she said, well, that might be an idea. And I always liked the theater. And but he was still putting our name up in lights. And we thought about it for several months. And we finally decided, you know, we need to give back to St. Petersburg, this would help. We thought it would be a good catalyst or a good generator of of making things come in downtown. So maybe that would help. And so we decided, yes, we’ll we’ll agree and we agreed to the money we’re going to give them and my dad gave. My mom and dad gave the larger portion of our gift and Marianne and I gave the other portion and over like a five year period of time, and they redid the theater, and we certainly had some say so as far as we liked the idea of a European style theater. And we like to design and everything. So back in 86 or so I think they opened the theater back and then Ted Mahaffey theater named put on it and they had a big opening, which was really a lot of fun. And then later on in the 90s The City spent a good deal of money on the on the atrium part of the theater. And, and it’s it’s a, it’s we’re very proud to have our name on the theater number one and number two is it’s been the catalyst that we would hoped it would be. And it’s a jewel, you know, it’s a it’s a cherished jewel,

Joe Hamilton
And you got a little bit into the some of the operations with or the support with foundation. Can you talk a little bit about that sort of relationship?

Mark Mahaffey
Marianne and I have supported some events and tried to help Bill Edwards in his operation of the theater and but Bill runs it, the city owns it, our name, our family name is on it. But certainly we’ve participated in and some events down there and will continue to do so. And

Joe Hamilton
And speaking of Bill and St. Pete changing, you know, obviously, we have a foundation and connected to different development officers and things like that. And they really say that, you know, the, the they’re sort of a group of folks, that’d be you, Bill, Sembler. Tom, James, you know, sort of that I’ve really, given a lot of the support that is the city is needed to get to where it’s gotten, and that there isn’t that following on generation of sort of supporting figures like that, have you felt that at all, where you’re like, you know, we’ve already had those conversations with some of the other people that kind of run in that circle where the it’s not getting replenished, like it probably should? Well, that’s that’s, and also the have family, a family should be included in that

Mark Mahaffey
Yes, they’ve done they’ve done a tremendous amount of community service and philanthropy. So you know, that that’s an interesting question. I mean, we’re, we’re still involved with the city. And so as Tom and Mary James, and The Semblers, he and his wife have passed on, and we miss them dearly, and, but there’s some, I think, those families still be involved as ours will be, but we need to look for new families, to be real honest about it. And I think they’re out there. And, and, you know, maybe we can help in that regard as far as promoting philanthropy from from our city, because we have some, we have some really good families here that I think will step up.

Joe Hamilton
Everything you’ve been through, Marianne has been by your side, that is not the norm. Nowadays, you know, people come in and out of relationships much more frequently, and you’ve stood the test of time. Let’s finish with you talking about what what what role in what she’s meant to you, and, and being your your sort of partner in life.

Mark Mahaffey
Well, my wife Marianne has put up with me for almost 55 years. And one of the things I didn’t mention that she sort of laughs at, but it’s true. When I did ask her to marry me. I went through this humble speech, which I don’t think she was paying that much attention. Because it was two o’clock in the morning, Thanksgiving Eve, but I told her wouldn’t be boring. I promised her that. And she remembers that and she agrees it hasn’t been boring. She you know, we’ve been through as most families, most couples, you have ups and downs in your life and and I talked about a few of those in the book. And, and in a she she’s a very strong woman, and I’m lucky to have her as my wife, she she’s now gone through our cancer situation where a little over a year ago, she was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, which as we all know, is one of the worst cancers, fortunately, because she had had some digestive problems, earlier mean two or three years of trying to figure out what was going on with her. And back over a year ago, they ran her gastroenterologist, Dr. Heidi Goldberg, ran some additional tests. And that’s where the pancreatic problem came up. The interesting story there is that happened right before Christmas of 2022. And we were fortunate to have some relationship and some history with all Children’s Hospital here in St. Petersburg, which now is at Johns Hopkins Hospital, and we reached out to them for help. Fast forward less than 30 days later, January 12. Marianne was operated on in Baltimore at Johns Hopkins by their best surgeon and had half her pancreas and all of her spleen taken out and then since then, has had six months of chemo treatment at Moffitt Center in Tampa, both of which are fine institutions who were fortunate enough to be be able to connect with them. But Marianne’s spirit and her determination, I always knew she had that. But every, I mean, it’s really shown its true colors in this type of situation and that her optimism again her determination, her spirit, she’s gotten through this and now we’re on the the cycle where you have a CT scan every 90 days and she just had one in December, which was all clear. So the outlook looks good. But I’m a firm believer number one and prayer number two and and attitude and determination. And some luck involved, that’s for sure. So we’re hoping for the best, we’re optimistic but she’s been my rock. And I’ve been through some health issues and and my kids are very strong, all three of them. And and they’ve helped me when I had some problems, and I’ve helped her immensely. So it’s a family deal. You know, it’s all about relationships, love, prayer, and determination. So we’re looking forward to the future. T

Joe Hamilton
The book is The Pathfinder finding the right path. It’s available on Amazon. I enjoyed reading it, a lot of greats, a lot of reasons to read it. There’s some great St. Pete stories in there. If you live in St. Pete, you’ll get a lot of value of understanding Mark’s family’s contribution as well as such as how something’s rolled in, and I found it great. So thanks so much for coming in. Really enjoyed the conversation again. I marveled at how quickly and every question I’d give you your recall and sharpness and details. We’ve got a special brain there so it’s nice.

Mark Mahaffey
Oh, thank you. I enjoyed being here.